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3 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 3:58pm Subject: I think the list is now fully set up ianrlmilne

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   As the title suggest I have set up the list to the best of my 

ability and transferred the ownership backwards and forwards to me which is also quite easy.

To see what I have been doing see the moderators list in management.

Craig (and Chris) it would be helpful to me if you could cast your trained eye over the list for corrections, aberrations etc.

I have also enabled the promotion option for moderators so that we can get the code to put on a web page for people to join or subscribe.

Judging from dialogue off list we should be in a position to go on the 16th December with a party on TC-OF for Chris.

I have also added a draft footer for all posts which we can modify over time. Comments welcome

Ian


4 From: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com 

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 8:48pm Subject: New file uploaded to TC-OF TC-OF@yahoogroups.com

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   Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the TC-OF group.

File : /The Therapeutic Community Open Forum Yahoo Group.doc Uploaded by : ianrlmilne <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> Description : Welcome message and rules

You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TC-OF/files/The%20Therapeutic%20Community%20Open%20Forum%20Yahoo%20Group.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

ianrlmilne <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk>


5 From: "Jon" <jonkat@clara.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 8:48pm Subject: Archives jonkat2uk

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   A question from the 'rules' document:

Question are we to have access to the old archives

Why not?

Jon.


6 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 9:56pm Subject: Re: Archives ianrlmilne

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   Perhaps we should make that a request to Chris from Jon?

Jon when drafting the "rules" soon to be accompanied by an ideas for the group docu,ment

I did and still do not know the answer to your question - I was merely asking.

I think it would be good if we could have access although as you know yahoogroups is quite different to the list that Chris is running (until Dec 16th)

Congratulations on being the first to post to the group!

Please feel free to comment on any aspect of the group especially in this formative period.

Ian Milne


Original Message -----

From: "Jon" <jonkat@clara.co.uk> To: <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 8:48 PM Subject: [TC-OF] Archives


> > > A question from the 'rules' document: > > Question are we to have access to the old archives > > Why not? > > Jon. > > > > > > >


7 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 0:54pm Subject: Re: Archives gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk

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   AH Jon, fancy meeting you here as I stroll through my e mails.

I assume that the old list archives are being talked about here. Are they? Anybody........

Best Gerald


Original Message-----

From: Jon <jonkat@clara.co.uk> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Date: 02 December 2004 20:50 Subject: [TC-OF] Archives


> > >A question from the 'rules' document: > >Question are we to have access to the old archives > >Why not? > >Jon. > > > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >


8 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 0:57pm Subject: Re: Archives gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk

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   Ian, I should have read your post before posing the question in my reply to

Jon.

This is exciting isn't it - two groups running in tandem. Actually I feel like someone who has just moved into a new house and anticipating the arrival of the furniture :-) Best Gerald


Original Message-----

From: Ian Milne <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Date: 02 December 2004 22:31 Subject: Re: [TC-OF] Archives


> >Perhaps we should make that a request to Chris from Jon? > >Jon when drafting the "rules" soon to be accompanied by an ideas for the >group docu,ment > > I did and still do not know the answer to your question - I was merely >asking. > >I think it would be good if we could have access although as you know >yahoogroups is quite different to the list that Chris is running (until Dec >16th) > >Congratulations on being the first to post to the group! > >Please feel free to comment on any aspect of the group especially in this >formative period. > >Ian Milne > > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jon" <jonkat@clara.co.uk> >To: <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 8:48 PM >Subject: [TC-OF] Archives > > >> >> >> A question from the 'rules' document: >> >> Question are we to have access to the old archives >> >> Why not? >> >> Jon. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >


9 From: "ianmilne2005" <ianmilne@hotmail.co.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 1:07pm Subject: Re: Archives ianmilne2005

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   Hello Gerald nice to see you.

Have you tried accessing the group through the web. You have to go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TC-OF and sign up for a Yahoo ID first.

There is so much more possible using the Yahoo Group through the web like downloading files, accessing web links ect.

Can I intrude and ask did you get the welcome file /email which includes the rules. I know that self subscribing members get it, but I am not sure yet that those that Chris joined automatically got it.

I hope you will enjoy the new group which I suppose starts properly on 16/12/2004 when the old list archives itself.

Ian

--- In TC-OF@yahoogroups.com, "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@b...> wrote: > AH Jon, fancy meeting you here as I stroll through my e mails. > > I assume that the old list archives are being talked about here. Are they? > Anybody........ > > Best > Gerald > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon <jonkat@c...> > To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 02 December 2004 20:50 > Subject: [TC-OF] Archives > > > > > > > >A question from the 'rules' document: > > > >Question are we to have access to the old archives > > > >Why not? > > > >Jon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > > > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement > worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. > >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. > >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) > >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >


10 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 5:22pm Subject: Re: Re: Archives gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk

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   Hello Ian, delighted to see you to. No worries about ID for Yahoo, been

with them for years so everything fixed up.

I did get the welcome package and rules and e mail, so all well there.

Take Care Kindest Gerald


Original Message-----

From: ianmilne2005 <ianmilne@hotmail.co.uk> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Date: 03 December 2004 13:07 Subject: [TC-OF] Re: Archives


> > >Hello Gerald nice to see you. > >Have you tried accessing the group through the web. You have to go >to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TC-OF and sign up for a Yahoo ID >first. > >There is so much more possible using the Yahoo Group through the web >like downloading files, accessing web links ect. > >Can I intrude and ask did you get the welcome file /email which >includes the rules. I know that self subscribing members get it, but >I am not sure yet that those that Chris joined automatically got it. > >I hope you will enjoy the new group which I suppose starts properly >on 16/12/2004 when the old list archives itself. > >Ian > >--- In TC-OF@yahoogroups.com, "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@b...> wrote: >> AH Jon, fancy meeting you here as I stroll through my e mails. >> >> I assume that the old list archives are being talked about here. >Are they? >> Anybody........ >> >> Best >> Gerald >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon <jonkat@c...> >> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> >> Date: 02 December 2004 20:50 >> Subject: [TC-OF] Archives >> >> >> > >> > >> >A question from the 'rules' document: >> > >> >Question are we to have access to the old archives >> > >> >Why not? >> > >> >Jon. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Therapeutic Community Open Forum >> > >> >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community >movement >> worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common >interest. >> >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >> >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >> >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) >> > >> > >> > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >


11 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 10:33am Subject: New Members ianrlmilne

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   Hello and welcome

Just to say there is not a lot going on here at the moment as the list really starts on the 16th December when the old list expires

Also you may notice some behind the scenes changes happening if you are logged on through the web. Please don't be alarmed. It is just me trying out different ways of setting up the group.

If you have any comments on the group presentation I would be glad to receive them on TC-OF-owner@yahoogroups.com.

My best wishes to you Ian Milne


12 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 10:45am Subject: Re: Archives ianrlmilne

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   Jon I think the answer is going to be that the archives of the old 

group will be stored at the PETT archives through Craig Fees and available for research purposes only as they are likely to contain discussions involving people who may be past members of that group and not members of this group. The archives of this group will be open to all.

Ian Milne

--- In TC-OF@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <jonkat@c...> wrote: > > A question from the 'rules' document: > > Question are we to have access to the old archives > > Why not? > > Jon.


13 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:06pm Subject: New Web Page ianrlmilne

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   Just to remind new members of this group who were old members of the 

old group that they can sign a guestbook at www.imauxb.demon.co.uk with a message of goodbye and thanks to Chris Evans for all the hard work he has put in over the years. Please visit and sign with a short message to Chris. Its just like a leaving card. Remember to enable pop ups for just this site.

Also whilst there have a browse round and give me your comments on the web page. There is a lot of access there to the ATC, PETT and Charterhouse web sites and the facility to search those web sites. For example if you want to know more about me just fill in Ian Milne in the search bar.

Also you can use the page as a way in to the TC-OF Open Forum in Yahoo Groups so that you can look at messages and use the facilities there.

I have set up a trial chat facility on the web page for experimentation. This could have uses for online seminars, inter- team chats or special guest appearances. How about testing it out?

Enough said for now my main reason for writing is to get you to sign the guestbook for Chris.(allow pop ups you might get a couple of pop ups but they are harmless) if the facility is used we might be able to purchase a non pop-up version)


Best wishes Ian Milne


14 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:30pm Subject: Re: New Web Page psychoanalystuk

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   Ian

I'm buggered. I can't sign the guest book as the post icon won't operate. I click on 'sign guestbook' get taken to the page with a list of contributors on it, when I click post I get nothing. Perhaps this accounts for the hardly overwhelming toal of six contributions?

Kindest Gerald


Original Message-----

From: Ian Milne <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Date: 12 December 2004 15:07 Subject: [TC-OF] New Web Page


> > >Just to remind new members of this group who were old members of the >old group that they can sign a guestbook at www.imauxb.demon.co.uk >with a >message of goodbye and thanks to Chris Evans for all the hard work >he has put in over the years. Please visit and sign with a short >message to Chris. Its just like a leaving card. Remember to enable >pop ups for just this site. > >Also whilst there have a browse round and give me your comments on >the web page. There is a lot of access there to the ATC, PETT and >Charterhouse web sites and the facility to search those web sites. >For example if you want to know more about me just fill in Ian Milne >in the search bar. > >Also you can use the page as a way in to the TC-OF Open Forum in >Yahoo Groups so that you can look at messages and use the facilities >there. > >I have set up a trial chat facility on the web page for >experimentation. This could have uses for online seminars, inter- >team chats or special guest appearances. How about testing it out? > >Enough said for now my main reason for writing is to get you to sign >the guestbook for Chris.(allow pop ups you might get a couple of pop >ups but they are harmless) if the facility is used we might be able >to purchase a non pop-up version) > > >Best wishes >Ian Milne > > > > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >


15 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:11pm Subject: Re: New Web Page ianrlmilne

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   I have also replied off group Gerald.

Are other people having problems signing the book apart from Gerald.

As with all new systems (like therapeutic communities) they take a bit of time to sort out.

Bst wishes Ian


--- In TC-OF@yahoogroups.com, "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@b...> wrote: > Ian > > I'm buggered. I can't sign the guest book as the post icon won't operate. > I click on 'sign guestbook' get taken to the page with a list of > contributors on it, when I click post I get nothing. Perhaps this accounts > for the hardly overwhelming toal of six contributions? > > Kindest > Gerald


16 From: "lombardoaldo" <aldolombardo@interfree.it> 

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:56pm Subject: greetings and best wishes lombardoaldo

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   I join all the readers of the list who wish to express gratitude to 

Chris for the care she has put on the running of the list. I want to thank her but also Ian for embarking on a demanding responsibility. I live and work in Rome and for me this list is a connection with Uk through TC matters.

Although I am rather reserved in putting forward my thoughts, mainly, I reckon, because of the subtle language hangups I shall be here to share 'TC culture production in action', to paraphrase Foulkes, who used the phrase ' ego training in action' to point to what a group can do for each of its members. As a memmser of this group I thank Chris and wish you all an enjoyable messages sharing.

Best wishes,

Aldo Lombardo


17 From: "Craig Fees" <cfees@surf3.net> 

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:58pm Subject: RE: greetings and best wishes cfees@surf3.net

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   Aldo wrote:

"Although I am rather reserved in putting forward my thoughts, mainly, I reckon, because of the subtle language hangups I shall be here to share 'TC culture production in action'"

One of the brilliant things about the list that Ian has created is that we can bypass language if we want to, and upload image or sound or any other files which others on the list can download. He's also set up a web-space. It would be good to find ways of using the potential that is there. Especially once TC-OF officially opens on December 16/17.

You could record yourself singing and playing guitar, Aldo; and if nothing else, send it to me on CD and I'll render it down into mp3 and upload it for you. Or interview someone.

Best,

Craig


18 From: "lombardoaldo" <aldolombardo@interfree.it> 

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:39pm Subject: Re: greetings and best wishes lombardoaldo

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   Thank you Craig for specifying the opportunity of shaing multimedial 

messages on the new list. This sparks off lots of ideas. I hope to find soon the right moment to abide with your exciting suggestion. Have a good day. Aldo


19 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:30pm Subject: Re: [ATC] Re: Where? ianrlmilne

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   Well this cleaned up version has been transferred over to TC-OF

So we can continue there. It will be interesting to see whether the profanity gets passed the censors Ian Milne


Original Message -----

From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:07 PM Subject: [ATC] Re: Where?


I'm on for it Helen. We can take it to TC-OF Best Gerald > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Spandler > Date: 15 December 2004 17:40 > Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? oh shucks, a v interesting discussion about villa 21, just as the list is closing. I propose we carry on off list and maybe re-emerge in the new one? any takers? helen I'm on hspandler@uclan.ac.uk

gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk 12/15/04 04:47pm Oh piss and shit abounded Liam :-) It was definitely an approach and a very brave one for the patients David himself and the hospital. A number of years ago I remember looking at Villa 21 from the ouside and was suddenly hit by a sense of history. Shenley's closed now. Best Gerald >>-----Original Message----- >>From: W.F.Clarke>>Date: 15 December 2004 13:40 >>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where?

Hi Helen

There's a chapter in 'The Time of the Therapeutic Communities ' Jesica Kinglsey Publishers which is about Cooper: I am noiw iun contact with someone who was a resident there and will to conatc him in the new year: no,there are refereneces to what can only be Villa 21 in Sigal's 'novel': a small publisher is seriously considering bringing this out in Britain: Sigal generously allowed me to take items from it: one nurse recalls that matters became so bad that the visiting nursing officer doing his 'rounds' of the hospital would only speak to them through a window!! The problem ws not so much, as far as I can guage, differences in approach as much as hygiene and propriety: come to think of it, I suppose these could be said to constitute an 'aproach'.

Best wishes

Liam >>>-----Original Message----- From: atc-bounce@psyctc.org [1] On Behalf >>Of >>>Helen Spandler >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:27 PM >>>To: atc >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>> >>>Hi Liam >>>Did you unearth anything else cooper had written about Villa 21? I'd >>be >>>really interested to hear more about the outcome of your >>investigations. >>>The film 'Family life' was influenced by Villa 21 as well. I thought >>the >>>novel Zone of the Interior was based more on sigal's experience at >>kingsely >>>hall? >>>helen >>> >>>>>> W.F.Clarke@bton.ac.uk 12/15/04 12:55pm >>> >>>I think there's a lot of truth in this: I recently looked into events >>at >>>Villa 21 during the reign of David Cooper and found that apart from >>Cooper >> >>>no one certainly not any of the nurses had written down their thoughts >>and >>>ideas about what was going: there might be something in the Shenley >>Hospital >>>Management Committee minutes for the period if anyone had the time >>and >>>energy to look: however for the moment we are deopendant on Cooper's >>own >>>account and the novel by Clancy Sigal still unavailable in this >>country >>>because of R D Laing's tantrums about it. >>> >>> >>>Liam Clarke >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: atc-bounce@psyctc.org [2] On Behalf >>Of >>>David Kennard >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:30 PM >>>To: atc@psyctc.org >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>> >>>They dream in their books. Why is Freud better known than Moreno? They >>were >>>contemporaries. but Freud wrote more. Much more. How do we know of >>the >>>importance of The Retreat in the history of psychiatry? Samuel Tuke >>wrote >>it >>>down. Ditto Homer Lane, A S Neill, David Wills - all better known >>than >>their >>>quite probably equally gifted contemporaries. So get writing - it's >>your >>>best investment in the future. >>> >>>David >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> >>>To: <atc@psyctc.org> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:31 AM >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>> >>> >>>> Craig Fees said >>>> >>>> .........the time when none of us is here, except what we have left >>>as >>>> legacy? >>>> >>>> True visionaries live perhaps for ever in the minds of others, >>>depends >>>> whether you live in the temporaral or spiritual world. >>>> >>>> Only one day left now >>>> Thanks Chris and here is hoping you get a well earned break. >>>> >>>> Ian Milne >>>> Therapeutic Community Open Forum The succesor group >>>> (www.imauxb.demon.co.uk) - come and join us! >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Craig Fees" >>>> Subject: [ATC] Where? >>>> >>>> >>>> > Where do therapeutic community people go to dream about the >>future? >>> >>>> > To imagine together what is possible, not just for their own unit >>>or >>>sector, >>>> > but for the field as a whole? And not just about tomorrow, or >>five >>> >>>> > or >>>ten >>>> > years' time, but the real future, the time when none of us is >>>here, >>>except >>>> > what we have left as legacy? >>>> > >>>> > And if there is no common imagining now, what is that legacy? >>>> > >>>> > Two days of this adventure left. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, Chris, >>>> > >>>> > Craig >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Dr. Craig Fees >>>> > Planned Environment Therapy Trust Archive and Study Centre Church >>>> > Lane Toddington near Cheltenham Glos. GL54 5DQ United Kingdom >>>> > >>>> > Phone/fax 01242 620125 >>>> > Email: craig@pettarchiv.org.uk >>>> > http://www.pettarchiv.org.uk >>>> > >>>> > Support the history and future of the field. Make a donation to >>the >>> >>>> > Archive Endowment Fund online at >>>> > http://www.workwithus.org/give/donate/Donate.aspx?SCVOID=142803


20 From: "Craig Fees" <cfees@surf3.net> 

Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:28pm Subject: Where? Here's an idea cfees@surf3.net

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   How about this? Kills about ten birds with one stone (metaphorically;

personally I wouldn't try killing one, much less ten, certainly not with a stone):

"An Evening/Weekend with Gerald": The Last Annual Thank You Chris Residential Celebration, held at the Archive and Study Centre, making use of the Barns accommodation/conference facilities. Everyone pays for themselves, plus a little extra for those who can't afford it (plus anything that can be raised elsewhere). A large arm chair, a nice whisky, Gerald reminisces, I record, people talk, everybody eats, talk some more, thank Chris, talk about the future, Gerald talks..." Any profits to the Archive Endowment Fund, to help make sure the whole thing keeps going. People on the list meeting face to face, photographs going up on the web...A bash. [Rural pub crawl for those who want it. Rural walks. Local steam train. Easily organised. New TC-OFfers welcomed (and there are a number already....]

Best,

Craig

http://www.pettarchiv.org.uk


21 From: Michael Göpfert <mjg@liv.ac.uk> 

Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:33pm Subject: Re: Where? Here's an idea gopfem1

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   I could go for this if I can clear space long enough in advance.

Michael.

--On 15 December 2004 20:28 +0000 Craig Fees <cfees@surf3.net> wrote:

> > How about this? Kills about ten birds with one stone (metaphorically; > personally I wouldn't try killing one, much less ten, certainly not with > a stone): > > "An Evening/Weekend with Gerald": The Last Annual Thank You Chris > Residential Celebration, held at the Archive and Study Centre, making > use of the Barns accommodation/conference facilities. Everyone pays for > themselves, plus a little extra for those who can't afford it (plus > anything that can be raised elsewhere). A large arm chair, a nice > whisky, Gerald reminisces, I record, people talk, everybody eats, talk > some more, thank Chris, talk about the future, Gerald talks..." Any > profits to the Archive Endowment Fund, to help make sure the whole thing > keeps going. People on the list meeting face to face, photographs going > up on the web...A bash. [Rural pub crawl for those who want it. Rural > walks. Local steam train. Easily organised. New TC-OFfers welcomed (and > there are a number already....] > > Best, > > Craig > > http://www.pettarchiv.org.uk > > > > > > > Therapeutic Community Open Forum > > Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement > worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. > Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. > Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) > Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >


22 From: Helen Spandler <hspandler@uclan.ac.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:44am Subject: Re: [ATC] Re: Where? hspandler@uclan.ac.uk

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   Its been a few year since I read Sigal's Zone of the Interior and yes

now you come to mention it Liam, wasn't cooper the dr drummond character? How do you know about the shit and piss Gerald? I'm writing up some stuff about paddington day hospital which has a similar story attached to it. Although theres been a fair bit written about it, not much was written by its instigator. However, loren mosher wrote absolutely loads about Soteria but how well known is he? helen


>>> Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk 12/15/04 06:30pm >>>

Well this cleaned up version has been transferred over to TC-OF So we can continue there. It will be interesting to see whether the profanity gets passed the censors Ian Milne


Original Message -----

From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:07 PM Subject: [ATC] Re: Where?


I'm on for it Helen. We can take it to TC-OF Best Gerald > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Spandler > Date: 15 December 2004 17:40 > Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? oh shucks, a v interesting discussion about villa 21, just as the list is closing. I propose we carry on off list and maybe re-emerge in the new one? any takers? helen I'm on hspandler@uclan.ac.uk

gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk 12/15/04 04:47pm Oh piss and shit abounded Liam :-) It was definitely an approach and a very brave one for the patients David himself and the hospital. A number of years ago I remember looking at Villa 21 from the ouside and was suddenly hit by a sense of history. Shenley's closed now. Best Gerald >>-----Original Message----- >>From: W.F.Clarke>>Date: 15 December 2004 13:40 >>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where?

Hi Helen

There's a chapter in 'The Time of the Therapeutic Communities ' Jesica Kinglsey Publishers which is about Cooper: I am noiw iun contact with someone who was a resident there and will to conatc him in the new year: no,there are refereneces to what can only be Villa 21 in Sigal's 'novel': a small publisher is seriously considering bringing this out in Britain: Sigal generously allowed me to take items from it: one nurse recalls that matters became so bad that the visiting nursing officer doing his 'rounds' of the hospital would only speak to them through a window!! The problem ws not so much, as far as I can guage, differences in approach as much as

hygiene and propriety: come to think of it, I suppose these could be said to constitute an 'aproach'.

Best wishes

Liam >>>-----Original Message----- From: atc-bounce@psyctc.org [3] On Behalf >>Of >>>Helen Spandler >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:27 PM >>>To: atc >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>> >>>Hi Liam >>>Did you unearth anything else cooper had written about Villa 21? I'd >>be >>>really interested to hear more about the outcome of your >>investigations. >>>The film 'Family life' was influenced by Villa 21 as well. I thought >>the >>>novel Zone of the Interior was based more on sigal's experience at >>kingsely >>>hall? >>>helen >>> >>>>>> W.F.Clarke@bton.ac.uk 12/15/04 12:55pm >>> >>>I think there's a lot of truth in this: I recently looked into events >>at >>>Villa 21 during the reign of David Cooper and found that apart from >>Cooper >> >>>no one certainly not any of the nurses had written down their thoughts >>and >>>ideas about what was going: there might be something in the Shenley >>Hospital >>>Management Committee minutes for the period if anyone had the time >>and >>>energy to look: however for the moment we are deopendant on Cooper's >>own >>>account and the novel by Clancy Sigal still unavailable in this >>country >>>because of R D Laing's tantrums about it. >>> >>> >>>Liam Clarke >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: atc-bounce@psyctc.org [4] On Behalf >>Of >>>David Kennard >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:30 PM >>>To: atc@psyctc.org >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>> >>>They dream in their books. Why is Freud better known than Moreno? They >>were >>>contemporaries. but Freud wrote more. Much more. How do we know of >>the >>>importance of The Retreat in the history of psychiatry? Samuel Tuke >>wrote >>it >>>down. Ditto Homer Lane, A S Neill, David Wills - all better known >>than >>their >>>quite probably equally gifted contemporaries. So get writing - it's >>your >>>best investment in the future. >>> >>>David >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> >>>To: <atc@psyctc.org> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:31 AM >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>> >>> >>>> Craig Fees said >>>> >>>> .........the time when none of us is here, except what we have left >>>as >>>> legacy? >>>> >>>> True visionaries live perhaps for ever in the minds of others, >>>depends >>>> whether you live in the temporaral or spiritual world. >>>> >>>> Only one day left now >>>> Thanks Chris and here is hoping you get a well earned break. >>>> >>>> Ian Milne >>>> Therapeutic Community Open Forum The succesor group >>>> (www.imauxb.demon.co.uk) - come and join us! >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Craig Fees" >>>> Subject: [ATC] Where? >>>> >>>> >>>> > Where do therapeutic community people go to dream about the >>future? >>> >>>> > To imagine together what is possible, not just for their own unit >>>or >>>sector, >>>> > but for the field as a whole? And not just about tomorrow, or >>five >>> >>>> > or >>>ten >>>> > years' time, but the real future, the time when none of us is >>>here, >>>except >>>> > what we have left as legacy? >>>> > >>>> > And if there is no common imagining now, what is that legacy? >>>> > >>>> > Two days of this adventure left. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, Chris, >>>> > >>>> > Craig >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Dr. Craig Fees >>>> > Planned Environment Therapy Trust Archive and Study Centre Church >>>> > Lane Toddington near Cheltenham Glos. GL54 5DQ United Kingdom >>>> > >>>> > Phone/fax 01242 620125 >>>> > Email: craig@pettarchiv.org.uk >>>> > http://www.pettarchiv.org.uk >>>> > >>>> > Support the history and future of the field. Make a donation to >>the >>> >>>> > Archive Endowment Fund online at >>>> > http://www.workwithus.org/give/donate/Donate.aspx?SCVOID=142803





Therapeutic Community Open Forum

Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT)


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23 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:59pm Subject: Re: Re: [ATC] Re: Where? psychoanalystuk

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   AH who are the censors Ian? Yahoo couldn't give a monkey's about

profanity, well not so far anyway :-) Kindest Gerald


Original Message-----

From: Ian Milne <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com>; atc@psyctc.org <atc@psyctc.org> Date: 15 December 2004 18:31 Subject: [TC-OF] Re: [ATC] Re: Where?


> >Well this cleaned up version has been transferred over to TC-OF >So we can continue there. It will be interesting to see whether the >profanity gets passed the censors >Ian Milne > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:07 PM >Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? > > >I'm on for it Helen. We can take it to TC-OF >Best >Gerald >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Helen Spandler > Date: 15 December 2004 17:40 >> Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >oh shucks, a v interesting discussion about villa 21, just as the list >is closing. I propose we carry on off list and maybe re-emerge in the >new one? any takers? >helen >I'm on hspandler@uclan.ac.uk > >gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk 12/15/04 04:47pm >Oh piss and shit abounded Liam :-) It was definitely an approach and >a very brave one for the patients David himself and the hospital. A number >of years ago I remember looking at Villa 21 from the ouside and was suddenly >hit by a sense of history. Shenley's closed now. >Best >Gerald >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: W.F.Clarke>>Date: 15 December 2004 13:40 >>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? > >Hi Helen > >There's a chapter in 'The Time of the Therapeutic Communities ' >Jesica Kinglsey Publishers which is about Cooper: I am noiw iun contact with >someone who was a resident there and will to conatc him in the new year: >no,there are refereneces to what can only be Villa 21 in Sigal's 'novel': a >small publisher is seriously considering bringing this out in Britain: >Sigal generously allowed me to take items from it: one nurse recalls that >matters became so bad that the visiting nursing officer doing his 'rounds' >of the hospital would only speak to them through a window!! The problem ws >not so much, as far as I can guage, differences in approach as much as >hygiene and propriety: come to think of it, I suppose these could be said to >constitute an 'aproach'. > >Best wishes > >Liam >>>>-----Original Message----- >From: atc-bounce@psyctc.org [5] On Behalf >>>Of >>>>Helen Spandler >>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:27 PM >>>>To: atc >>>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>>> >>>>Hi Liam >>>>Did you unearth anything else cooper had written about Villa 21? I'd >>>be >>>>really interested to hear more about the outcome of your >>>investigations. >>>>The film 'Family life' was influenced by Villa 21 as well. I thought >>>the >>>>novel Zone of the Interior was based more on sigal's experience at >>>kingsely >>>>hall? >>>>helen >>>> >>>>>>> W.F.Clarke@bton.ac.uk 12/15/04 12:55pm >>> >>>>I think there's a lot of truth in this: I recently looked into events >>>at >>>>Villa 21 during the reign of David Cooper and found that apart from >>>Cooper >>> >>>>no one certainly not any of the nurses had written down their thoughts >>>and >>>>ideas about what was going: there might be something in the Shenley >>>Hospital >>>>Management Committee minutes for the period if anyone had the time >>>and >>>>energy to look: however for the moment we are deopendant on Cooper's >>>own >>>>account and the novel by Clancy Sigal still unavailable in this >>>country >>>>because of R D Laing's tantrums about it. >>>> >>>> >>>>Liam Clarke >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: atc-bounce@psyctc.org [6] On Behalf >>>Of >>>>David Kennard >>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:30 PM >>>>To: atc@psyctc.org >>>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>>> >>>>They dream in their books. Why is Freud better known than Moreno? They >>>were >>>>contemporaries. but Freud wrote more. Much more. How do we know of >>>the >>>>importance of The Retreat in the history of psychiatry? Samuel Tuke >>>wrote >>>it >>>>down. Ditto Homer Lane, A S Neill, David Wills - all better known >>>than >>>their >>>>quite probably equally gifted contemporaries. So get writing - it's >>>your >>>>best investment in the future. >>>> >>>>David >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> >>>>To: <atc@psyctc.org> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:31 AM >>>>Subject: [ATC] Re: Where? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Craig Fees said >>>>> >>>>> .........the time when none of us is here, except what we have left >>>>as >>>>> legacy? >>>>> >>>>> True visionaries live perhaps for ever in the minds of others, >>>>depends >>>>> whether you live in the temporaral or spiritual world. >>>>> >>>>> Only one day left now >>>>> Thanks Chris and here is hoping you get a well earned break. >>>>> >>>>> Ian Milne >>>>> Therapeutic Community Open Forum The succesor group >>>>> (www.imauxb.demon.co.uk) - come and join us! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Craig Fees" >>>>> Subject: [ATC] Where? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Where do therapeutic community people go to dream about the >>>future? >>>> >>>>> > To imagine together what is possible, not just for their own unit >>>>or >>>>sector, >>>>> > but for the field as a whole? And not just about tomorrow, or >>>five >>>> >>>>> > or >>>>ten >>>>> > years' time, but the real future, the time when none of us is >>>>here, >>>>except >>>>> > what we have left as legacy? >>>>> > >>>>> > And if there is no common imagining now, what is that legacy? >>>>> > >>>>> > Two days of this adventure left. >>>>> > >>>>> > Thanks, Chris, >>>>> > >>>>> > Craig >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Dr. Craig Fees >>>>> > Planned Environment Therapy Trust Archive and Study Centre Church >>>>> > Lane Toddington near Cheltenham Glos. GL54 5DQ United Kingdom >>>>> > >>>>> > Phone/fax 01242 620125 >>>>> > Email: craig@pettarchiv.org.uk >>>>> > http://www.pettarchiv.org.uk >>>>> > >>>>> > Support the history and future of the field. Make a donation to >>>the >>>> >>>>> > Archive Endowment Fund online at >>>>> > http://www.workwithus.org/give/donate/Donate.aspx?SCVOID=142803 > > > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >


24 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:33pm Subject: Re: Where? Here's an idea psychoanalystuk

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   'I say' said Mary Poppins 'What an extraordinarily good idea'

I've got a sense that I would go for this. I expect people would want someone famous rather than me - I or someone could arrange this - however I could keep them aghast for several hours recounting TC horror stories and smashing the reputations of some of the TC idols.

All in all I think something along these lines could work well. We could become an alternative ATC

I charge £10,000 for speaking engagements :-)

Best Gerald


Original Message-----

From: Craig Fees <cfees@surf3.net> To: atc@psyctc.org <atc@psyctc.org> Cc: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Date: 15 December 2004 20:29 Subject: [TC-OF] Where? Here's an idea


> >How about this? Kills about ten birds with one stone (metaphorically; >personally I wouldn't try killing one, much less ten, certainly not with >a stone): > >"An Evening/Weekend with Gerald": The Last Annual Thank You Chris >Residential Celebration, held at the Archive and Study Centre, making >use of the Barns accommodation/conference facilities. Everyone pays for >themselves, plus a little extra for those who can't afford it (plus >anything that can be raised elsewhere). A large arm chair, a nice >whisky, Gerald reminisces, I record, people talk, everybody eats, talk >some more, thank Chris, talk about the future, Gerald talks..." Any >profits to the Archive Endowment Fund, to help make sure the whole thing >keeps going. People on the list meeting face to face, photographs going >up on the web...A bash. [Rural pub crawl for those who want it. Rural >walks. Local steam train. Easily organised. New TC-OFfers welcomed (and >there are a number already....] > >Best, > >Craig > >http://www.pettarchiv.org.uk > > > > > > >Therapeutic Community Open Forum > >Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. >Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. >Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) >Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT) > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >


25 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:45pm Subject: Therapy in TC's psychoanalystuk

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   Hello Folks

I would very much like to know how many people are performing psychotherapeutic tasks: Counselling, Psychotherapy, Psychotherapeutic Child Care in TC's but are not receiving what they consider to be appropriate training, or training that would not enhance an individual's ability to further their psychotherapeutic training, if they so wished to continue outside of TC's

I am asking because I have been musing on setting up an organisation which would satisfy the entry requirements for UKCP or BCP, should an individual widh to be associated with these organisations.

Kindest Gerald


26 From: jonkat <jonkat@clara.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:03pm Subject: Re: Therapy in TC's jonkat2uk

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   I qualify.

When? How much?

Jon.


Hello Folks

I would very much like to know how many people are performing psychotherapeutic tasks: Counselling, Psychotherapy, Psychotherapeutic Child Care in TC's but are not receiving what they consider to be appropriate training, or training that would not enhance an individual's ability to further their psychotherapeutic training, if they so wished to continue outside of TC's

I am asking because I have been musing on setting up an organisation which would satisfy the entry requirements for UKCP or BCP, should an individual widh to be associated with these organisations.

Kindest Gerald


27 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:44pm Subject: This list perhaps the last message ianrlmilne

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   Am I the only one present at the demise of the atc@psyctc.org list. 

Here at midnight nearly on 16/12/2004 I have to report that the wake is peaceful. I am not sure what time Chris Evans is going to pull the plug, but I think I will turn the lights out as I leave. Just in case there are any of you coming in in the remaining 20 minutes I will leave a small candle burning. In the meantime don't forget that if you are not already on the successor list TC-OF at Yahoo Groups you can do so by accessing through www.imauxb.demon.co.uk to subscribe.

"Come on you people now

Shine on your brother

Everybody get together.

love one another right now."

Goodnight and good morning TC-OF

and hello David you have just signed out!

Ian Milne All outgoing mail scanned with up to date Mcafee Virus Checker


28 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:55pm Subject: Re: [ATC] Re: Where? ianrlmilne

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   Thanks Chris and have a real good break.

There looks like people are staying up to watch you pull the plug. David and Jonkat and I all on in the last few minutes. Best wishes and final farewell to the list Ian Milne. (we won't believe it till the emails bounce)


Original Message -----

From: "Chris Evans" <chris@psyctc.org> To: <atc@psyctc.org> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: [ATC] Re: Where?


> Well this has been an interesting experience. Oddly enough, the last > week has been so pressured on the work side that I hardly had chance > to pick up messages and, when I had a moment last weekend, I saw > "Chris, please don't read" and decided it was a message from above > and didn't read ... and have only just had a chance to read again. > > Steffan would normally have been right about the futility of asking > me not to read Emails: like asking me not breath? .. but I have held > my cyber breath and now feel cracks about "live by the Email, die by > the Email" and "falling on your Email list" coming to mind. > > Seriously, I'm enormously grateful to everyone who has expressed > appreciation and the customary wit and diversity of contributions. > Mine is definitely not a contribution meriting free tickets or life > memberships but it has been wonderful for so long to "own" this list > and it's good to see members moving across. > > Now you all know my research propensities so some statistics: when I > took a snapshot of the membership and invited people to either move > or opt out (1.xi.04?) there were 178 Email addresses, not necessarily > all of them working and some duplicate identities of one real human > being. Three have asked not to move, 24 (including one duplicate > identity!) have asked to, and have been, moved, and I know from the > new lists statistics there are 34 people now on the new list. I'm > trying to use the yahoogroups "invite" facilities to invite the > remainder to transfer but I think it wanted me to do that 50 per day > so I'll give the remaining addresses to Ian so he can invite them to > transfer. > > You can also subscribe yourself: go to > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TC-OF/ > > I'll lurk on the new list but give myself leave not to read and I > will keep a very low profile and feel wonderfully without any > responsibility at all. > > Meanwhile life goes on: seasonal greetings for those for whom this is > a season and all the best to everyone and tc-of for 2005! > > Chris > -- > Chris Evans <chris@psyctc.org> > Consultant Psychiatrist in Psychotherapy, Rampton Hospital; > Research Programmes Director, Nottinghamshire NHS Trust, > Hon. SL Institute of Psychiatry > *** My views are my own and not representative of those institutions > *** > > > > Message sent to the ATC Email list. > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to: > atc-request@psyctc.org > If that fails, or for any other admin. issues, > contact me: chris@psyctc.org. >


29 From: Michael Göpfert <mjg@liv.ac.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:23am Subject: Re: Therapy in TC's gopfem1

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   It must be a reflection of the TC culture, the way this has come to an end. 

As someone who has recently co-presided over the unwanted closure of a real TC (Webb House) it has been remarkably similar apart from the them-and-us-ness which was very present in our closure process. I will continue to be part of the new list (was it 34 including doubles?). What happened to the idea with the wings and the muddy boots on Craig's invitation? Michael.


30 From: "Sarah Paget" <Sj.paget@virgin.net> 

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:27am Subject: Re: Therapy in TC's Sj.paget@virgin.net

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   Goodbye ATC list! Hello TC Open Forum! and a Merry Christmas to one and all! 

Gerald, I for one would love to see what you propose come in to being and I know many who would feel the same.

Sarah Paget

From: G.F. Phillips To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: [TC-OF] Therapy in TC's


Hello Folks

I would very much like to know how many people are performing psychotherapeutic tasks: Counselling, Psychotherapy, Psychotherapeutic Child Care in TC's but are not receiving what they consider to be appropriate training, or training that would not enhance an individual's ability to further their psychotherapeutic training, if they so wished to continue outside of TC's

I am asking because I have been musing on setting up an organisation which would satisfy the entry requirements for UKCP or BCP, should an individual widh to be associated with these organisations.

Kindest Gerald


Therapeutic Community Open Forum

Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT)







No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 15/12/2004


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31 From: "Ian Milne" <Ian@imauxb.demon.co.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:15am Subject: The list is open to all ianrlmilne

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   Just an update to say that all the remaining membership of the old 

atc@psyctc.org list have today been invited to join the group so we should see the numbers and activity rising over the next few days.

Tonight if anybody is interested in experimenting Ian will host an open chat session from 8pm until 9pm using the chat facility available on www.imauxb.demon.co.uk.

Simultaneously Ian will also be online using the chat facility available through the TC-OF web page at http:/groups.yahoo.com/group/TC-OF

Topics for discussion. Hello, Welcome,Your ideas on how the group could evolve. Our best wishes to you on TC-OF's birthday Ian Milne Craig Fees


32 From: "G.F. Phillips" <gfp.jutta@blueyonder.co.uk> 

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:20pm Subject: Re: Therapy in TC's psychoanalystuk

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   Dear Jonkat

The answer to your questions is that it's in embryonic stage. I'll report back.

I just feel like facilitating the training of potential psychotherapists, many of whom are doing psychotherapy already.

Kindest Gerald


Original Message-----

From: jonkat <jonkat@clara.co.uk> To: TC-OF@yahoogroups.com <TC-OF@yahoogroups.com> Date: 16 December 2004 19:02 Subject: Re: [TC-OF] Therapy in TC's


I qualify. When? How much?

Jon.


Hello Folks

I would very much like to know how many people are performing psychotherapeutic tasks: Counselling, Psychotherapy, Psychotherapeutic Child Care in TC's but are not receiving what they consider to be appropriate training, or training that would not enhance an individual's ability to further their psychotherapeutic training, if they so wished to continue outside of TC's

I am asking because I have been musing on setting up an organisation which would satisfy the entry requirements for UKCP or BCP, should an individual widh to be associated with these organisations.

Kindest Gerald


Therapeutic Community Open Forum

Created in December 2004 for all in the therapeutic community movement worldwide for the discussion of matters of concern or common interest. Sponsored and promoted by the following organisations. Association of Therapeutic Communities (ATC) Planned Environment Therapy Trust (PETT)

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